Web3, crypto and intersection with progressive values
(First initials used for privacy reasons :)
Web3/crypto and intersection with progressive values
Looking at NFT's and the web3 and crypto space.
B is exploring creating decentralized adovicacy organization for users of decentralized tech. Some conflict between the apolitical nature of the crypto space and there is conflict between progressive / environmental groups and crypto.
History of cryptocurrency book, Brunton, F., 2019. Digital cash: the unknown history of the anarchists, utopians, and technologists who created cryptocurrency. Princeton University Press, Princeton, NJ.
B - There's a ton of scam and sketchy stuff but there's also something which has helped provide resources to do their work as artists or others.
I Separate the bitcoin based landscape vs ethereum.
- Bitcoin folks are more hard right libertarian
- Ethereum has more left libertarian folks, not exlusive, but focused on legitimate making the world better.
J - Disgree, smart contracts are trying to get away form government regulation.
B - It's too early to say that, in a categorical way.
J - DAO's are corporations which exist apart from people. Proof of stake is not democratic. Supposedly distributed corporations run on the proof of stake based blockchain. Claims to be autonomous, meaning no humans involved. Organization as many things acting as a single organization.
B - The idea is tokenized ownership, but could be distributed by many means. Some do it with purchase but others do it with participation.
J - Just using their terms and definitions.
A - Three years a DAO had a re-enrency bug - had to decide about what to do and fell back to humans. About DAO's and coops, what are they, what does governance mean in this case.
This is what i found on "DISCOs":
- https://disco.coop/about/ -- "DisCOs is a P2P/Commons, cooperative and Feminist Economic alternative to Decentralised Autonomous Organizations (or DAOs)."
- Is DISCO real or just aspriational documentation?
B - I'm in two DAO's. one is art collector DAO to buy NFT's. It's very much people who collectively own NFT's. Exciting because it enables things which wouldn't work without the underlying technology.
K - Looking at it through a Marxist lens, what does it mean materially when you own an NFT, what does it mean? How does it compare to DRM?
B - Good question. I'm involved in generative / algorthmic art - a system to product artistic output. Now with long form generative art, it produces many outcomes, each is a piece of art. Combined with NFT's an NFT is created to represent the generated art and that's owned by the minter. Then "i own the artist says is the real one" it enables collecting of things. We could argue that there shouldn't be private ownership of art. If more artists are able to capture the value vs the intermediators... if we had uber owned by drivers as a DAO which would be the workers.
T - I'm interested int his conversation, blockchain wont' change the nature of capitalism, it'll be used to disrupt things. Artists are using it to organize festivals. I came of age in the indymedia and am now 40...
G - when i said there is a solution to our problem i was referring to blockchain. I think cryptocurrenc is another way for capital to move across borders. It was exciting about words of freedom, but it was actually freedom of capital. Clay Shirky has lots of stuff which is related to generations? There's a tendency to confuse how they're produced and how they're consumed. We don't look at the economy as producing and consuming. It's great tor raised money, but it's not...
B - welcome new people. we've been chatting about progressive blockchain. Is it useful or horse shit.
A - Spent a bunch of dweb / archive.org folks. The internet archive folks are aligned with the Aspiration community. Then there are liberarian crypto scam artists. THere's a lack of political consciouness, they lack a conceptual framework. It's work i'm doing on garbled.org. People need to come together as a community and made decisions.
L - Climate Impact of NFT's. Wants to reach out.
C - floats around commnities on this stuff including web3, archive, etc... altenratie treating as strategy, tactic, or destination.
A -i'm a newbie
B- what's the signal thread
B - place to share info and keep in touch
L - just listening
B - Closing comment, i'm optimistic, perspective at a future dystopia that big corporations control everything and crypto and web3 controls it. Or we live in it now and crypto web3 might make it better. It's not foegone conclusion. There's value there, not just in economic sense.
G - pretty polarized conversation - social relations are the same and it's useful.
it can be both at hte same time.
A - i want to know what LJ wants to organize about.... [cut off]
J - had to leave early, commented in chat before leaving: value capture (re: NFT discussion at time) is a capitalist game. I'd rather solve the starving artist problem via web of trust based UBI and mutualism.